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What skill trees and/or perks would you change?

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Let's discuss vanilla skills trees and perks. If you could turn back time to 2011, what skill trees would you overhaul and why? How would you change it? What would you add or take away, or would you rather scrap the entire tree and overhaul it completely? 

What skill trees wouldyou add in addition to what we already have?

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  • I would add a skill tree called Athletics to the warrior or thief, i kind of didn't like how slowly your character moves without running or sprinting.

  • I would completely get rid of the */5 rank perks that simply add in a boost. This is a complete perk sink and it would have been much cooler to just have damage/effect percentages change and grow with skill alone and then have more unique perks added in.

    • Now there is a smart idea. Like you I cant help but feel like a great deal of perks are wasted on simple boring damage buffs 

      • It is that way. I mean a basic sword and board character in some sort of armor and maybe alchemy will be putting in 16 damn perks (20 if you count all 5 ranks) just to be boosted up a little bit each time...

        • Which is why I'm glad over the years so many unique exploits and quirks have been discovered. They help bring more unique flair to many builds which would be lacking without them. 

    • Good point. It would allow for more differentiation between weapon types. 

    • Agreed. I feel like 5 perks to invest into is way too much. I'm not too familiar with Ordinator but I think they reduced that number to 2, which is much much better. 

    • Now this is something I'm all for Henson.

  • Gonna go ahead and say what many are likely thinking already: Vanilla lockpicking is useless. 15 vanilla builds and counting and I've yet to find any use for that skill tree aside from filler level ups. Given the option, I would overhaul it entirely.

    Ordinator has the right idea with lockpicking. In addition to picking locks you can also use it to "hack" into dwarven machines and lay traps. If I were to overhaul lockpicking I would use the Fallout system where you cant even attempt a lock you aren't perked to handle.

    I would also have a wide array of trap based perks because I feel many vanila trapper based builds don't have nearly enough to work with to live up to that archetype. 

    Trip wires, land mines, spike pits, snares, lures, even camoflogue could all go under lockpicking. 

    On a side note, is anyone else bothered by the fact that every chest uses the same lockpick minigame? I find it immersion breaking that chests made out of giant bug parts, dwarven tech, and old fashion wood and steel all have the same locking mechanism. Does not make sense to me, and I'm shocked that that has yet to be addressed (to my knowledge) in the near 8 years this game has been out. 

    • Lockpicking is defintitely the weakest tree in vanilla to me as well.

      However, I'm going to say that the tree I'd change -- the one where I think the most potential was left on the table -- is Speech. Honestly it isn't much more useful than Lockpicking -- like Lockpick, there is a single item that basically renders any potentially useful perks irrelevant (for Speech, it's the Amulet of Articulation; for Lockpicking it's the Skeleton Key). The other perks, like getting better discounts from merchants, aren't useful either as there is an overabundance of gold to be found looting, and any craftsman will have more byproducts from grinding than they can ever sell anyway. The Merchant perk can be a bit useful in that regard, especially when used with skill trainers to get some quick level-ups, but that's about it.

      However, for a game that revolves so heavily around using a form of ancient magic that is literally called The Voice, I feel like it is an absolute crime that there aren't any Speech perks that have to do with Shouting. Especially given how few other ways there are in the game to build up/around Shouts (exploits notwithstanding). It could also be nice to have some bard perks as well. (Sidenote: The Ordinator perk overhaul mod adds perks to the Speech tree for both Shouting and bards.)

      Another one worth touching upon is Pickpocket. In general I think it's another pretty useless tree, with most perks being effectively useless on 99% of characters (including most stealth-based builds to be frank). However, this is a tree that is generally awkward to make useful even if you were to change it, IMO. I've truly never seen a perk/gameplay overhaul mod that really made me interested in investing heavily in Pickpocket. To be honest, I think I'd prefer that Lockpicking and Pickpocket be merged back into what used to be a single skill, Security. Then you could bring back something like Unarmed, Unarmored, Acrobatics, etc. (hell, maybe combine all three of those into a Martial skill tree.) I think that would be more balanced and open up a lot more possible builds.

      Another potential "new skill" is a sort of Lore type skill. There's a game overhaul, I wanted to say SkyRe, that adds a skill like this. It basically involves questing, discovering new locations and enemies and such, and generally leveling up your character. As you develop the tree, you can "learn about" different types of creatures and such, and gain new resistances to them and/or tactics to be more effective against them. I like the concept because the vanilla game really doesn't differentiate enemy types much at all, and the idea of actually having to understand your enemies, and to a degree account for their combat tactics, strengths, and weaknesses, makes for a more compelling combat experience and overall gameplay loop to me.

      EDIT: I just noticed two people voted Alchemy. Whoever you are, know this: I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my Alchemy go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will hide poisons all over your Hearthfire home.

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