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What Separates a Sorcerer from a Spell Sword?

Disclaimer: couldn't think of a more suitable place to post this since we don't really have a place to just talk shop about elder scrolls. At least not yet anyway.


Figured out how to add pages within groups so now we have a forum page within the Elder Scrolls CB group to just discuss things like playstyles or build mechanics etc.

You might have seen the recent house cleaning we did in the Elder Scrolls character building archives. Among many play style tags we did away with was he sorcerer, for what felt like good reason. It's really hard to describe a sorcerer in a way that distinguishes that class from a spell sword, or even a battle Mage when you really think about it.

Sorcerers are often described as powerful mages possessing the physical stamina required to wield weapons and wear heavy armor. But isn't that just a spell sword with beefed out armor? I could be totally wrong about this, and if I am you should definitely set me straight.

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  • Right brand me an babyboomer (even though I'm a millenial) but I've always treated the sorcerer in the terms of how Tibia branded them:

    Sorcerers are masters of offensive and aggressive magic. They have only limited healing abilities, but can draw from a wide range of attack spells. Through the ages, they have focused their research on destructive magic to aide them in battle.

    Because of their focus on magical abilities, they are sorely lacking in physical skills, and have little physical strength to carry items and equipment.

    However, I also never complied to how the term "Mage" is used in the Elder Scrolls universe, since I depict it as a universal term for anyone who uses magic, meaning I treat Sorcerers as Offensive DPS classes and Druids (in this case) as Supportive classes, focused more on healing and supporting allies through empowerment and crowd control.

    As a result a spellsword can just be depicted as a regular "Mage" since it is someone who uses magic.
    • I think Mage acts as both an "umbrella" for anything in that end of the triangle, as well as a "pure mage" being a 100% magic-based character. Certainly there are other "types of mage" that fall under the same umbrella but aren't "pure" mages -- red mage, blue mage, necromancer, enchanter, druid, psion, cleric, etc. I suppose you could also use "Wizard" in place of "pure mage" to avoid any confusion, but in context it's usually easy enough to tell the difference between the specific class, and the umbrella archetype.
    • This reply was deleted.
      • Placing it in terms of assigning classes, would Sorcerer be a intrinsic class (perhaps like an umbrella term for mages since in classic fantasy the most well known terms, correct me if I am wrong, would be Sorcerers, Mages and Wizards) and a Spellsword simply a style of combat? Same going for the Battlemage?

        The official definition for the meaning of Sorcerer is:

        Magical, mysterious, and quite possibly mythical, a sorcerer is a name for a spell-casting wizard. Use the noun sorcerer when you're talking about a magician who practices enchantments and conjures spells. Sorcerers appear in many fantasy novels and Shakespeare plays. The word for a female sorcerer is sorceress. The Latin word sors, "fate or fortune," is at the root of sorcerer, which didn't come into popular use until after the 1940 release of the Disney film "Fantasia," which featured Mickey Mouse as the character "the sorcerer's apprentice."

        And when I looked up a Battlemage:

        Battlemage is a class in various Elder Scrolls games. They commonly focus on combat using both magic spells, as well as blunt and blade weapons. Battlemages are a deadly mix of scholar and soldier, and are trained to utilize offensive spells during combat.

        Lastly, the Spellsword:

        Spellswords are great students of combat and magic. Serving as warrior-mages, they dedicate their lives to learning both the art of war and the ethereal ways of power. Spellswords are adept at all types of weapons and armor utilization, and are extremely versatile in combat situations.

        It seems to me that Battlemages and Spellswords are very similar in their combat styles, since they both rely on weapons. Although the terminology for the Sorcerer seems a tad ambigious, being centered on "practicing enchantments and conjuring spells" and literally meaning "Fate" seems more mystical than the other two *subclasses* so to say.
      • Thats a pretty good distinction you've laid out here. I almost want to go back and add the sorcerer back to the archive. 

  • I've always been of the mindset that mages use any and all kinds of spells and prefer keeping away from enemies. Spell swords are just magic augmented fighters, and battle mages are battle hardened mages who typically wear heavy protective armor because they prefer to get up close and personal with their spells.
  • I think the best way to look at it, for the purposes of a TES site, is through the TES class framework. Both Sorcerer and Spellsword are official TES classes. In Oblivion, these were their tagged skills:

    Sorcerer:
    * Attributes: Endurance, Intelligence
    * Skills: Alchemy, Alteration, Conjuration, Destruction, Heavy Armor, Mysticism, Restoration

    Spellsword:
    * Attributes: Endurance, Willpower
    * Skills: Alteration, Blade, Block, Heavy Armor, Destruction, Illusion, Restoration

    So I think in general, we can see both classes specialize in being "tanky" compared to other magic users (Endurance grants additional health/longevity in battle, and heavy armor provides the highest physical defense). Furthermore, both are, of course, magically affluent, and both have skill in Destruction and Restoration. I think the differences are apparent in that the Spellsword's skills imply a more aggressive play style, with Willpower (regen) plus the physical weapon skills hinting that he would be charging enemies on the front line, moving rapidly from skirmish to skirmish, and generally using a move simple/direct combat approach. Whereas the Sorceror has no physical weapon specialization, and with skills like Mysticism, Alchemy, Alteration, and the Intelligence attribute, his combat is likely more subtle and strategic. While he has definite defensive acumen (Alteration, Heavy Armor, and Endurance) he probably prefers to use his knowledge to give himself an advantage in battle, and likely prefers not to be drectly in the fray if he can avoid it -- though if he must do so, he is prepared to stand his ground.

    Having said all this, I think functionally they are very similar: hybrid magic/combat classes, optimized for high protection against physical attacks, with both offensive magic and utility magic to use in combat.

    For the record, I think Battlemages also fall pretty close to this same tree. In Oblivion, they have Intelligence and Strength, and while they do not have heavy armor as a tagged skill, they are seen using it in-game. Their class artwork also suggest heavy armor as a common garment for Battlemages, to go a along with a balanced mix of magical offensive/utility schools, as well as physical combat. Without Block or an armor skill, and with Strength rather than Endurance, Battlemages seem like the "glass cannons" of the hybrid mage/warrior classes, but again, I think all three are probably pretty similar in terms of raw functionality. It's probably more in roleplay that you see any real differences.
  • I just wrote a really long, detailed response to this thread, but for some reason, it doesn't seem to have been saved when I clicked the Reply button. :\

    I think the best way to look at this for us as a TES site is to consider the TES class framework. Both Sorcerer and Spellsword are canon TES classes. (As is Battlemage.) I looked at the Oblivion class descriptions, attributes, and tag skills, and I think you can see a lot of similarities: Both are optimized for longevity in physical combat (Heavy Armor + Endurance), both have a mix of offensive and utility magical schools, and of course both are presented as hybrid warrior/mages. The Spellsword seems to be more aggressive and direct in his combat, with the ability to damage enemies through Destruction as well as Blade. The Sorcerer seems more subtle and strategic, with Intelligence, Alchemy, Mysticism, and Alteration all suggesting a more tactical approach to combat. He has no offensive physical weapon proficiency, so I would imagine despite his defensive prowess, he prefers to avoid the fray where possible.

    Battlemages seem like the "glass cannons" of the warrior/mage hybrids, with Strength and with no physical defensive tag skills (though they are generally portrayed as wearing heavy armor). More offensive firepower, but less defensive capability.

    Functionally, I think all three play very similarly in-game, and it's definitely no easy feat to differentiate them for the purposes of character building. I think it's more in roleplay that you can draw some lines in the sand to make each feel unique.
    • Explaining the absence of one massive essay with another massive essay. That's teccam for you.
      • I figured it out, I had an extension that was hiding all comments. LOL
  • Some very intelligent and detailed responses to this thread. I am very impressed. I feel like I've learned quite a bit reading everyones responses. 

This reply was deleted.