Welcome to the General Discussion Group. This is a catch-all group for any kind of discussion whether is has anything to do with elder scrolls, fallout, or video games in general or  not. Discuss whatever you want here, but please observe our ground rules.

 1. You can discuss (almost) anything, but please respect everyone! Do not "bash" other people's beliefs or views, and do not be disrespectful. If we see misconduct here, you will be removed from the group.

2. No discussion related to pornography, pirating, or anything that violates Ning's Terms of Service are permitted here. 

3. Racist, sexist, homophobic remarks are not allowed at any time. 

With that being said, post away and have fun!





Hi, this is a post I made recently on other TES community sites, I got some interesting answers (Tamrielvault, Reddit) I could share some of them later, would be nice see what are your thoughts and discuss about the topic :)


There is just a simple question, probably might have complex answers

What is a soul in Elder Scrolls?


I would appreciate to anyone give their own thoughts respect what a soul is in Elder Scrolls universe, taking in consideration any TES reference, could be about lore, lore events, in-game quotes, in-game authors, lore-friendly characters, lore-friendly folk, lore-friendly beliefs, or even fan-fiction stories.


Here are some words to help you get some thoughts

 Some topics that could be related to the soul:

- What about the soulless one in TESO?, what is a soulless one?
- Can a soul be used for other's practices?, If so what does that implies for the person who his soul is being used?
- How is related to Aetherius, Oblivion realms; Soulcairn?
- Soulstones... technically how they work, what is the process for the person under ritual involving his soul and a black soulgem?
- What about soulgems?
- Only humanoid beings have souls?, what about animals and critters (even considering those from other planes: as Oblivion for

You need to be a member of THE SKY FORGE to add comments!


Email me when people reply –


        • @Medieval (6 dec. 2019 07:34:35 PST):
          _ _ _

          :O!, thanks a lot Paws, I'm just quick passing for Tamrielvault, that's a lot of information to process though I appreciate it alot. I'm going to take my time to read it to then reply appropiately, so we can keep delving into the topic (also of course anyone is welcome).

          @Medieval (29 dec 2019 20:36:24 PST):
          _ _ _

          Hi Paws again!, sorry for the delayed response.. but I think is better to reply
          a well made comment than just a "thanks", and as I've been very bussy with life
          things I couldn't find a proper time to get to a good read to your comment and
          comment back.

          I would glad this discussion continue, doesn't matter If takes long delay times
          on response, would be nice to have this topic alive.

          About the first part: "Starting from the beginning, the Ashen Scar questline involves meeting up with Vastarie"...
          I miss the part about Namira: "Namiira's grip on these bent cats is weakened and they would remember their former selves",
          how is Namira involved with The Acolytes of the Hidden Moon? [reading forward your post I found some sights of it but would be nice
          If you could tell me more about it]

          About Vastarie, what a great primary source of information, As she is Lich that is really cool, also she said she uses
          complex Illusion magic to to mask her self, her aspect might be scary ...

          also as she said: "liches turn inward, manipulating their own soul to gain power and extend their life",

          so the process of reaching Lichdom is complex and risky, requires a lifetime of study, a strong mind I guess and a fierce power of will
          so the "big prize" of reaching Lichdom might be "the limitless magical horizon" and the trick is divesting soul and mortal forms to remove the boundaries
          of be an integral being,

          in other words thinking in a real life concept, it might have some of unfolding in to the "astral" [you know the technique about getting out of the body and being counscious about it]
          and probably cheating the boundaries of the soul linked to the body through the phylacterie, or maybe is more than cheating and might be full disconnecting of such boundary, in any case
          there are consequences that makes the body decay but by other hand the consiousness of the being can be extended probably unlimitedly

          When Vastarie says "to become a Lich the necromancer must press their soul through an arcane vessel called phylacterie" to remove the boundaries between soul and body so then can be access to a "limitless magical horizon", it seems that implies the soul is a kind of fuel or energy and the spirit and consciusness [and/or spirit] might be a separate thing

          I have another question respect Vastarie dialogue, she says as being a Lich make her powerful but that where she is [at her location] also makes her vulnerable, as If she lose focus Arum-Khal could dominate her, why is she vulnerable at that location? and how is Arum-Khal related to dominate her If she lose focus?... 

          About dro-m'Athra and Khajiits, probably the souls of different races might have different "propierties", that's really interesting, or maybe is just Khajiits who knows

          About : "At long last, we know the answer. The lich's phylacteries serve as gateways to another realm, a realm he's created himself", I think the part of "a realm he's created himself" might be just for Arum-Khal,
          I mean the phylacteries might help the process of getting access to a different reality, but then depends on the Lich what to do with such knowledge

          About this: "That is why The Path of Transcendence tells us a lich need not fear for his phylacteries - the magical horizon available to a lich is so vast that there need not be a limit on the number of safeguards they can put in place. Wonderful stuff!"
          that have a lot of sense
          also about that destroying the phylacteries of a Lich will force it to search for another phylactery, meanwhile in the process the Lich do that is very vulnerable and can be destroyed

          By the way respect the Necromancy: The Great Debate discussion, thanks for the reference I'm going to delve into it, take a good read and participate

          Thanks a lot again for your post Paws, please take your time to comment back when you can

          Tamriel Vault - Necromancy: The Great Debate
          Elder Scrolls and Fallout community: character builds, lore, discussions and more. “Only the foolish and the fearful refuse to grasp power due to…
          • Continuining with the comments from Reddit/r/teslore

            From @Georgiepineda, @Rykan_1, @Oxybelix, @Sordahon

            Great House Telvanni
            5 points·1 month ago

            Theres a book that talks about the souls and tells of the unknown nature of souls however there is a gross simplification:
            White souls and Black souls.

            White souls: belong to non-sentient creatures like animales, some lesser daedra.
            Black souls: Belong to sentient beings, men, mer, argonian, khajiit and dremora.

            White souls can be trapped inside a soul gem while black souls can only be trapped in black soul gems. A note on black soul gems, they seem to defy nature since they can only be made through a ritual performed by necromancers which wasn't discovered up until near the oblivion crisis (They even point out how N'Gasta, the Sload necromancer, would have loved to have such knowledge).

            7 points·1 month ago

            The relationship between souls and black soul gems is a bit up in the air.

            It seems to be that before Mannimarco started causing absolute mayhem, Humanoid souls could be soul trapped in ordinary soul gems.

            Then, post-mannimarco, someone, be it the mages guild, or Arkay, we're not 100% sure, who, why or how, basically created the concept of black souls, to prevent soul trapping.

            Then mannimarco just laughed at them and made black soul gems like an absolute Chad.

            Great House Telvanni
            6 points·1 month ago

            The virgin mages guild vs the chad necromancer.

            3 points·1 month ago

            Would recommend this book. Many things that were suspected before were confirmed in this.

            Great House Telvanni
            2 points·1 month ago·edited 1 month ago

            My own thoughts here:

            Soul is a combination of soul power(inherent magicka) and consciousness.

            Black souls and White souls is a divide set up on two occassions:

            First is mage guild trying to globalise using on sapient souls of animals for enchanting with their specialised soul trap spell as they thought of sapient souls(men/mer) as a crime against nature.

            Second is Arkay using his power to protect races he sees fit from common soul trapping spells and gems used for enchanting, that protection only covers men and mer and does not seemingly include intelligent sload, lesser daedra and other strange beings. To ignore that protection one has to have a better(not hijacked by stupid laws) soul trap spell and a gem that can hold protected soul, these gems are made by Ideal Masters so that Necromancers can trade them for favors(if they are cunnign enough), getting help from Mannimarco Revenant moon that shades Arkay plane sometimes, or by one own power and knowledge like that guy that corrupted Azura Star.

            To continue upon souls, when you enchant an item, you use soul power to give it energy(magicka) to cast a spell through enchantment that is combination of spell inscription that has to be supplied with soul power and ambient magicka gathering matrix that is created by slicing consicousness from the soul power, which allows the magic item to gather it's own magicka, effectively recharging itself slowly.

            Consciousness then is drawn by passive emanation from Soul Cairn into Ideal Masters grasp because without soul power, a consciousness has no means of resisting it.

            To touch upon dying and afterlife, seven examples:

            1. You die without getting soul trapped - Your soul that has both your consciousness and soul power uses it's power to travel to desired afterlife.

            2. You die but get soul trapped - Your consciousness is drawn into soul cairn without chance to resist.

            3. You die but get soul trapped and have angry powerful being watching you - Your consciousness is getting drawn toward soul cairn but that being snatches it midway to punish you for offences.

            4. You die, get soul trapped and forgotten about - You go mad from loneliness inside the gem.

            5. You die, get soul trapped but some friend breaks the soul gem and frees your soul, and because the gem wasn't used for enchanting, you have enough power to seek afterlife.

            6. You die or shed your physical body, however you are an ancient mage and can easily act as a soul, you go to afterlife if you want, can go into oblivion as immortal soul like Ideal Masters did, get a vacation in Aetherius and come back as a soul if needed like Shalidor, create an artificial body to hold your soul as a vestige of sorts.

            7. You die, your soul power is still there but consciousness is strangely in different place, that's what I would call soulless, you act, think and do things, you don't have a body so you get an artificial one like vestige(with someone help, no easy ways), then you try to get your soul power back before someone uses it for things like powering Coldharbour rotating oblivion gate, after the ordeal your old body is no more and you have your artificial one, in addition to experience through acting as a soul, you become something like an ancient mage in sixth example, however you still need to learn magic(heh).

            Edit: There are also ghost but it's same as first example but someone has unresolved business to do and chosen(by pure emotion most likely) not to parsue afterlife, like reluctance to leave home, wish to remain with one lover, etc.

            Livingdadream (u/GeorgiePineda) - Reddit
            u/GeorgiePineda: Just your average redditer.
  • Surprisingly no one has yet to ask about the Falmer. They are, or rather once were, sentient beings. So why then are their souls white? 

This reply was deleted.